Breezejunky 0 #1 January 8, 2004 Took a quick look but don't have time to for much more so sorry if this has been addressed. I ordered a Sabre 2 in June, got it in September, jumped it 7 times and sent it back. Terrible end cell closer, slider hang up, right turn in cruise etc. Ok fine, anyone can make a lemon. Got it back in December,(after much begging), almost 7 months after ordering it. It is better but still has end cell closure and slider hang up on every opening as well as a diving right turn on most of the openings. I was told by a PD rep that "end cell closure sometimes happens" and that the S2 is designed for a slow, staged opening. SLOW IS RIGHT! The one I demo'd didn't open like that and at least one person with the same canopy and wing loading says hers doesn't open like that. I find this unacceptable. What experience are other S2 jumpers having? BTW, once it finally opens, I love the canopy but as I do big ways, living with unstable openings is not an option. Rhonda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #2 January 8, 2004 i jump a S2. i can relate to the end cell closure and more over to the spin upon openning. got end cell closure every now and then but its not a big problem. never had slider issues and the right turn upon openning is annoying but nothing more. try letting someone else pack for you a few times and see how it goes, nose position can have a huge effect on how long it takes it to deploy. there was a very long thread about it not long ago with a lot of tips on packing and body position (look straight , not up and so on) i love my S2, thats the bottom line... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 January 8, 2004 How are you packing it? What are you doing to the nose, the tail, the slider. Are you doing a "different" method of putting it in the bag, such as psycho packing? In my experience with Sabre2s, if you do anything with the nose besides leave it hang (including tucking it even just a little in aka a "courtesy tuck") and do anything to the tail besides just give it 3-5 good rolls, then it's going to open weird.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #4 January 8, 2004 What AggieDave said with one additional question - Have you compared your slider size with similar sqft S2 canopies? If yours is larger and your weight loading less, that can be a contributing factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #5 January 8, 2004 and how is it loaded ?? maybe an effect ?? or maybe the slider is too big ?? that's what they had on the 1st series of Saphire2 and some people did not like the too slow openings... was told a nice sentence by a rep of Icarus : it's always easier to have a slow opening canopy opening faster than the contrary...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #6 January 8, 2004 Quoteand do anything to the tail besides just give it 3-5 good rolls, then it's going to open weird. what else would you do with the tail? and as for the nose, yeap, just let it be... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 January 8, 2004 Quotewhat else would you do with the tail? Some different things I've seen include, no rolls, 1 roll (or just enough to keep the fabric together. Rolling till the lines of the backjob were being pulled around the packjob.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #8 January 8, 2004 actually now that i think of it, i roll it more than that. i try to take as much air as i can while still standing and then i roll it. i dont have a problem with snivel time but i gues it could be the cause of off heading openings. i'll try to roll it less, just hope i would still get it in the bag... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 January 8, 2004 Its not so much that rolling the tail could cause an off heading opening, but I've seen folks rolling ending up with more rolled on one side then the other, pulling the symetry out of their packjob. I've also see some folks that roll so much that they're pulling their lines around their packjob. Do that far enough and you might get a fun line over.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #10 January 8, 2004 Do that far enough and you might get a fun line over. *** i'll remember that if i'm ever REALLY bored... but yeah, i could be rolling one side more than the other, i'm not a symetric guy O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Breezejunky 0 #11 January 8, 2004 All in all I've had it packed by two riggers, myself and most recently two different packers in Eloy. The one I worked the most with was Ray who has packed for Airspeed for years. He was aware of the problem and tried different things. Nothing worked. The wing loading is 1.2:1 As for slider issues...it's new and it's been sent back once. I would think PD would know what slider to put on their canopy's, no? Or do you usually have to specify. I've never done that before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 January 8, 2004 Well then, I couldn't really tell you, I'd have to go jump it to see what it felt like, but the folks at PD did that and they're MUCH MUCH MUCH more experienced then I am. Talk to PD again, tell them everything going on, worst case they'll make you a new one.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #13 January 8, 2004 Quotethey're MUCH MUCH MUCH more experienced then I am Naaaaah..... really ??!?!?!? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmpnkramer 0 #14 January 8, 2004 Quoteworst case they'll make you a new one. I know someone who had major issues with a Stilletto he bought and PD would not do much more than re-line it. I personally have not had issues with PD but this is something I heard from a reputable person. Of course I only have my reserve from them and I customize everything for me. Laters, The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER! "HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!" "Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #15 January 8, 2004 I jump a Sabre2 210 loaded at 1.1 lbs/sq ft I love this main. since I began to propack it opens great every time and on heading. I get about 800 ft opening which is quite comfy for me, no end cell closure, no slider hangups. Occasionally I will turn slightly, maybe 20 - 30 degrees but I believe this is a body position issue. I do not roll the nose or anything else fancy. I just leave the nose hanging and do a standard PRO pack with the tail rolled just enough to keep it shut when I lay it down. This is also a new canopy. Bought it in October. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #16 January 8, 2004 I have the exact same issues with my Sabre2 since getting it re-lined 2 months ago. Before the re-lining it never had those problems. Every jump i've made with the new line set i have end cell closure and the slider hang ups. It takes me about 3 strong pulls on the rear risers to get the damn slider down and the cells inflated. I also notice a big difference in the flare. It doesn't seem to react as quickly as before. I also know of someone else that has the end cell closure and flare issue with his brand new Sabre2. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #17 January 8, 2004 I have a S2 and shove the nose way up there, role the tail until I can roll no more...and get perfect openings out of it, no end cell closure yet either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packaho 0 #18 January 9, 2004 i ordered my sabre2 over the summer and finally jumped it at the end of last month. i only have about 8 jumps on it, but i've noticed the same problems. i only had end cell closure once, but my slider has been pretty lazy coming down. i've had some crazy off-heading openings, which could possibly be contributed to body position, but on my last couple of jumps i realized that when i'm flying and not even touching my toggles, my canopy inches towards the right. i have a 150 with a 1.1 wing loading, and i'd say i'm confident in my packing method. sky, fallatio #8, infructose #3, bumpy brother Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 January 9, 2004 QuoteI have a S2 and shove the nose way up there, role the tail until I can roll no more...and get perfect openings out of it, no end cell closure yet either. I have never considered end cell closure a problem, it is generally the product of a nice soft opening. What is your canopy like during the opening? Does it search for a heading? Every single S2 I've seen packed that way opened ok, but faster/harder then one packed the way PD recommends and it seems that when they're packed that way, they really really hunt for a heading.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #20 January 9, 2004 QuoteI have never considered end cell closure a problem, it is generally the product of a nice soft opening. But when you have to really pump the rear risers a few times to inflate them...i consider that a problem. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #21 January 9, 2004 One of my rigs has a Sabre2-210, which is loaded at 1.2:1 -- near the end of the chart. It's been a great flying canopy, but the openings were always brisk, i.e., a brief snivel then the slider hit the risers. On one opening I got slammed really hard, so I talked to PD about it, and they sent me a slider that was three inches larger in the chord dimension. The larger slider now gives very nice openings, but the canopy now has more time to hunt for a heading. Overall, it's a great canopy, and it's a pleasure to toss the pilot chute! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigM 2 #23 January 10, 2004 I jump a S2 loaded at 1.25. For those that said they had noticed the slight off-heading openings or "searching" as I like to call it, it's not your body position. I don't think I've talked to an S2 owner yet that didn't experience some of it. My end cells are occasionally tardy getting fully open but only maybe twice would I have called it end cell closure. The slider is fine but someone just looking for an issue might deem it as mildly sluggish once in a while. Bottom line, I don't think there's anything else I'd care to jump on a daily basis. Blue 111- Jeff "When I die, I want to go like my grandmother, who died peacefully in her sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in her car." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #24 January 10, 2004 QuoteI've also see some folks that roll so much that they're pulling their lines around their packjob. Do that far enough and you might get a fun line over. if i ever get to meet your, which i'm sure i will some day, i would like you to roll the piss out of my vx and i'll go jump it and i can almost garuntee that i won't have a line over. prove to me that it causes that. i mean, have you ever looked inside a physco pack after it's been put in the back and taken back out? the brake lines, and sometimes even the D lines are right up there infront of the nose, or at least right next to it. and lots of people physco pack, and don't have problems. ok, i'm done. i know it was off topic, so if you want to talk about it more, PM me or something. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
