Pond swooping and wet reserves

[alan 1]

FYI
Most riggers are aware of PD'd requirements for a permeability test after 25 jumps or 40 repacks. There are several other situations that require a permeability test as well. The first criteria listed in their manual is:
"The canopy is completely submerged in water."

The manual does not elaborate on exactly what this means. Does the canopy have to be in a deployed state? Does it mean the canopy has to be soaking wet? What if it is still in the container, but was submerged long enough to have to be aired and dried?

I'm not picking on PD here. They set a high standard in quality, performance, and customer service.

So, how many riggers out there send those PD chow jobs in for a permeability test?

It is a bit confusing because on another page they say that:
"If a canopy has been agitated or moved around much while wet, the afbric must be tested for permeability, before it is returned to service."

While the first statement simply says submerged, I guess it could be argued that the latter implies it also has to have been agitated.

Chuck, you're a rigger, PD factory rep, and a guy that gets wet on occassion, what is the official policy?

alan

[craddock 0]

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So, how many riggers out there send those PD chow jobs in for a permeability test

Of course your assuming that the customer always offers this information. I have never heard a rigger ask as policy if the reserve has been submerged since the last pack cycle.

Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Rdutch 0]

Ive been swimming with my rig many times, Ive enen done intentional water jumps where I was in the water a few minutes. When I opened my reserve, all that was wet was my reserve pc, and the bottom of my reserve had a little dampness, nothing serious. So you would have to ride your reserve into the water, of spend a long time before you might get your reserve completely submerged. Either way, I inspect it well, after, especially since nylon when dryed at longer and shorter intervals shrinks at a different rate.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[craddock 0]

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So you would have to ride your reserve into the water, of spend a long time before you might get your reserve completely submerged.

I will agree that I have seen many rigs submerged where the reserve has barely gotten damp. This is not always the case though. Just because of your experiences with your rigs, I don't understand why you would offer a statement as such directed toward others and their rigs.
I have had reserves very wet without spending much time in the water.

Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[riggerrob 643]

Every reserve that gets dunked should be opened and hung up for a day or two until it is thoroughly dry.

[alan 1]

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Of course your assuming that the customer always offers this information. I have never heard a rigger ask as policy if the reserve has been submerged since the last pack cycle.

No, what I am assuming is that after going in the water the jumper opens the reserve to inspect it and dry it and does not wait for the repack cycle before wanting to use the rig again. If I get an open reserve before the repack cycle, I ask why it is open even if I am not required to, so I can make any appropriate remarks on the packing data card, i.e., repacked after use.

I assume that someone would have to intentionally want to deceive me for me to not know the reserve had been submerged. If it was wet or damp when I got it, I would want to know why and the circumstances in order to determine if a permeability test would be warranted.

alan

[alan 1]

I'm curious Ray, what definition of submerged would you use to warrant a permeability test? Have you ever discussed it with anyone at PD? I'm from a small DZ in WI so we don't see much pond swooping and intentional water jumps are done with gutter gear, so I have never been contronted with a wet PD reserve. I intend to call PD if I have face this situation as it seems to me that riggers ahve pretty much avoided addressing it.

I can see more issues than porosity, as you have mentioned. Shrinking rates could cause trim and flight issues. Tapes are preshrunk aren't they? Exacta-chute fabric is not, right? Specra lines? One part of the canopy gets wet, the rest doesn't, meaning one part is affected and one isn't. Probably not a real issue since the effects on overall performance would in most cases be minor and may in fact never be discovered. The instruction in the manual may be heavily influenced by liability issues more than anything else and to discourage people from throwing them in the washer and dryer!

alan

[Rdutch 0]

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I'm curious Ray, what definition of submerged would you use to warrant a permeability test? Have you ever discussed it with anyone at PD? I'm from a small DZ in WI so we don't see much pond swooping and intentional water jumps are done with gutter gear, so I have never been contronted with a wet PD reserve. I intend to call PD if I have face this situation as it seems to me that riggers ahve pretty much avoided addressing it.

I can see more issues than porosity, as you have mentioned. Shrinking rates could cause trim and flight issues. Tapes are preshrunk aren't they? Exacta-chute fabric is not, right? Specra lines? One part of the canopy gets wet, the rest doesn't, meaning one part is affected and one isn't. Probably not a real issue since the effects on overall performance would in most cases be minor and may in fact never be discovered. The instruction in the manual may be heavily influenced by liability issues more than anything else and to discourage people from throwing them in the washer and dryer!

What I posted earlier on this thread was based purely on my previous experiences, I do not reccomend anything. That said I am on my way out, but I have had many conversations with Scott Miller from Pd and a few of the Factory team members as well as opened and inspected a few reserves that have been wet, I will post a detailed report sometime very soon, but Getting a reserve wet, definitely lessens the porosity of it, and should warrant an inspection.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!