BASE Ethics - hypothetical situation

[quade 4]

Let's say you knew of an object about 100 feet high and knew the owner of the object didn't want anybody to ever BASE off if it because of liability issues.

Further, let's say the owner of the object is also a DZO and makes it known that anybody that jumps it will be have a lifetime ban from the drop zone.

For the purposes of this discussion, let's say the object is the rotating beacon at the airport -- 100 feet tall.

Is that actually enough of a reason/threat to keep anyone from ever jumping it or are there, in fact, some people so self absorbed that this would not deter them.

OR will the DZO/object owner need to take active measures (alarms, barbed wire, broken glass) to ensure that it is not jumped?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[fundgh 0]

Does the owner of any object ever want their object jumped? What makes the beacon any different? What is the difference between DZ ban threats and say...Jail time?

...FUN FOR ALL!

[Faber 0]

i think most jumpers would go flik somthing else.

EDIT spelling

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[DexterBase 1]

It seems like getting busted by the DZO is less of a problem than the site itself.

100 feet is low by any standards. If it was 200 then sure, go scope it out without a rig and see if it's alarmed. If you do trip an alarm it would be better to not be wearing a BASE rig. If everything seems okay, go get a rig and do it.

If the object is cool enough, then the rewards give you reason to consider the risk of getting caught. If it's not a worthwile object anyway, why bother pissing anyone off?

Personally, if my DZO asked me not to do something I would respect his wishes. There's plenty of other stuff to jump, enough to keep you busy every night for the rest of your life anyway.


edit: typo

[TomAiello 26]

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Further, let's say the owner of the object is also a DZO and makes it known that anybody that jumps it will be have a lifetime ban from the drop zone.

I think this is going to depend on his other attitudes about BASE.

Say he's the DZO at a hypothetical dropzone called Sky-Polka. He's a pretty nice guy, he lets me pack my BASE rig on his grass, I enjoy hanging out at his dropzone. When he asks me not to jump his object, I refrain--out of respect for him.

Now, let's look at another hypothetical DZO, this one at a dropzone called Hi-Life. This guy is a curmudgeon, he hates BASE, he punishes staff members (by say, making them clean out toilets) who he suspects have gone BASE jumping, he doesn't allow BASE rigs on his dropzone, and he won't let anyone show BASE video. He has even kicked a couple of BASE jumpers off the dropzone, at least partially just because of what they do away from the DZ. I smile for the camera and flick his object in style. Since he's probably already banned me from his DZ, it amuses me to send the video back with some people who will show it there.

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For the purposes of this discussion, let's say the object is the rotating beacon at the airport -- 100 feet tall.

Hmmm. I know that several BASE jumpers have specifically jumped FAA control towers, just to spite the FAA, because of the historical USPA and FAA attitudes about BASE. I don't think it would matter to me if it was an airport beacon, or a water tower, or whatever, but I'm sure it might matter to some jumpers.

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...are there, in fact, some people so self absorbed that this would not deter them?

Actually, the reasons why I would make the jump (or not) would be exactly the opposite--not because of my self absorption, but because of the attitudes (good or bad) of the DZO/object owner.

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will the DZO/object owner need to take active measures (alarms, barbed wire, broken glass) to ensure that it is not jumped?

Betcha I can beat his active measures, given enough time.

In short, be nice to me, and I'll respect you. Be a jerk (especially, in this scenario, about BASE), and I'll yank your chain every chance I get, sure as hell.

edit: Dexter's point about the altitude is well taken. I probably wouldn't bother with this thing unless it was specifically to spite DZO McNasty.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base689 0]

Ah ah ah ah, Tom!!!!
I am with you on EVERY point you made!!!!!!
Ending my post saying that a 100 ft - 30 m object is jolly aggressive!!!! Worth the risk ONLY if the DZO is a nasty bloke!!!!

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[quade 4]

Well, this particular DZ is very nice and the DZOs are very nice people. They employ numerous BASE jumpers at their skydiving school as instructors and packers. They're simply afraid of the liability issues with this particular object.

Yes, it's damn aggressive, which is why I think it's going to be a very tempting target for somebody to try. I was just wondering if there was anything they could actually do to stop people from jumping it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TomAiello 26]

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I was just wondering if there was anything they could actually do to stop people from jumping it.

I would think the first thing to do would be to talk to the local BASE jumpers.

The truth is that, no, there's not a strong enough community ethic to be self-policing on something like that. I doubt there ever will be. Even if the object was actually owned by a BASE jumper (say, your local BASE manufacturer had purchased it to hold first jump courses off of), there would still be folks out there with just the right amount of spit-in-your-eye, rebel attitude that eventually someone would jump it.

For better or worse, that's BASE. Nine times out of ten, I'd say it's for better. In this case, it may be for worse.

Now, when's the next time I'm going to be out your way...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SkyMissy 0]

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I was just wondering if there was anything they could actually do to stop people from jumping it.

Like Tom said, they can just be cool and earn the respect of jumpers. Friends don't just disrepect friends.

________________________________________________
Mike

[fundgh 0]

Be up front and honest in that scenario, and hope the word spreads. The moment you put broken glass and no treaspassing signs, is the night it will get jumped!

...FUN FOR ALL!

[dgskydive 0]

Paul. I think I know what you are talking about. It gets taller everyday! There have been rumors of guys buying all black gear for the occasion. I won't be anywhere near that if it happens. But I would like to see the video.

Dom

[quade 4]

Well, hopefully people will understand it's not in the best interest of anybody to jump it.

The risk/benefit equation needs to take into account the DZOs and all of the people employed at the establishment in this case.

Jumping a site like that has the potential to do a lot of damage to the owners and would cause a lot more grief to others than any bragging rights could ever be worth. The jumpers could be hurting their own friends -- even if nothing bad ever happened.

Hard to explain without coming right out and saying it -- but it would suck.

Hey, I'm all for BASE jumping at logical places where it will do no harm other than to the people doing the jumping, but this is not that sort of case.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[base582 0]

Hallo Quade,
first of all, it's good that your concerned about our DZ but I really don't think you need to be getting your knickers in a twist over this!
I can't think of anyone around here who'd really want to jump this object.
A 100' B.A.S.E jump is very serious business...only likely to be tackled by someone with huge balls and a LOT of low B.A.S.E experience.
This type of jumper would, I'm sure, only jump it "for the right reasons"... i.e. for themselves... certainly not for "bragging rights".
There would be no cool video to check out.
You wouldn't even know it had been done.
By the way, I have absolutely no intention of jumping it,mainly because it's too bloody low but also because I have no reason to risk ticking off the DZO's[ and there are other,less controversial things to jump around here
If,however, some brave soul were to flick this thing in the manner described above I'd salute them, and hope they would allow themselves a secret grin each time they walked past it.....they deserve it!
C-ya.....
Lloyd.