jclalor 12 #1 June 27, 2011 On Friday at the boogie in Davis, may be twenty seconds after opening and at about 2300 ft, I looked behind me to see a canopy spiraling down at me. For a split second I thought of dissconecting my RSL and cutting away. She cut away pretty much as I was going for my RSL, I'm a bad judge of distance but she seemed pretty damm close. Edited to add that I did not shoot this video, I was pretty close to right below her as she starts spiraling. Nothing she did wrong and I was glad to see she was fine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psFzvr-YMxU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 June 27, 2011 Why would you disconnect your RSL prior to cutting away? In two out situations it is sometimes needed but I'm trying to figure out a time that it would be needed when you have just a single canopy out.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #3 June 27, 2011 For a split second as I watched her spiral, she went out of view above my canopy, I had no idea if she was going to come crashing thru the top of my canopy. I fly a huge canopy and there was no fast way for me to leave the situation outside of cutting away and falling to may be 1500 ft before deploying. It all happened very fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #4 June 27, 2011 Why would you not just turn away from the other canopy after quickly looking to clear airspace? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #5 June 27, 2011 edit - closer than I would have liked to have been. Sorry for the confusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #6 June 27, 2011 QuoteWhy would you not just turn away from the other canopy after quickly looking to clear airspace? Matt It seemed to me that her diving and spiraling canopy would cover much more distance than my 250 sf canopy. I was already heading away from her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #7 June 27, 2011 QuoteWhy would you not just turn away from the other canopy after quickly looking to clear airspace? Matt">QuoteWhy would you not just turn away from the other canopy after quickly looking to clear airspace? Matt It's not me with the camea. She is above me and as I go below her her canopy then goes into a spiral. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #8 June 27, 2011 Freeze at 21 sec., then advance by frame. You will then see the OP's canopy in straight/level flight nearly directly below the spiraling one. I'll agree that yup - absolutely, that was indeed, quite "close enough"!coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 June 27, 2011 If you can still edit your post, you should add that this is outside video. I assumed it was your perspective like the others did. ETA: Yes, once I understood where you were, I completely understood your question. I'd have felt the same way.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #10 June 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf you can still edit your post, you should add that this is outside video. I assumed it was your perspective like the others did. I edited the post, I have a watched it a couple of times on a big screen and assumed everyone would see it how I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jjudd 0 #11 June 28, 2011 Gnarly! Was that two guys doing crew resulting in the entaglement followed by cutaway with one flying close by you after chopping? or are my eyes decieving me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #12 June 28, 2011 You have a lot of control inputs - 4 risers, and 2 toggles. I would focus on learning how to use those to the point that you've go them mastered. Your first though in how to get away from someone should not be fumbling with an RSL and cutting away. Fly your parachute wherever you want it to go - away from someone if necessary. Glad it worked out for everyone! _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #13 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteGnarly! Was that two guys doing crew resulting in the entaglement followed by cutaway with one flying close by you after chopping? or are my eyes decieving me? No crew entanglement, she had line twist and tension knots and that's her reserve opening 75ft away from me. What was really weird was this was the exact spot where I saw a canopy collision below me that resulted in a fatality two years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #14 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou have a lot of control inputs - 4 risers, and 2 toggles. I would focus on learning how to use those to the point that you've go them mastered. Your first though in how to get away from someone should not be fumbling with an RSL and cutting away. Fly your parachute wherever you want it to go - away from someone if necessary. Glad it worked out for everyone! _Am I'm all ears, I am almost 50, over 6'2 and 240, I fly a very conservative solo 250sf canopy. If I get a very good grip on my fronts I can yank them down a couple inches. Outside of heading in the opposite direction ( that's what I did ) what could I do? When you look up behind you and you see a canopy spiraling down at you that fast and then your view is blocked because it's went above your canopy and you think that you could collide in a second or two, it sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
holie 0 #15 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou have a lot of control inputs - 4 risers, and 2 toggles. I would focus on learning how to use those to the point that you've go them mastered. Your first though in how to get away from someone should not be fumbling with an RSL and cutting away. Fly your parachute wherever you want it to go - away from someone if necessary. Glad it worked out for everyone! _Am I'm all ears, I am almost 50, over 6'2 and 240, I fly a very conservative solo 250sf canopy. If I get a very good grip on my fronts I can yank them down a couple inches. Outside of heading in the opposite direction ( that's what I did ) what could I do? When you look up behind you and you see a canopy spiraling down at you that fast and then your view is blocked because it's went above your canopy and you think that you could collide in a second or two, it sucks. Hey Dudes, most mistakes are not made at the point the happening is ... they are made long before. How can she be "on top" of you on opening? Did you run under her? Don't you go 90° from the junprun till you have your following jumpers with good canopies in sight and then turn to DZ? Or did she first fly over your had and then had a malfunction? Did she took enough time between the exits? Did she do her freefall work in 90° to jumprun .... many possible mistakes. Work with your jumpmates on that issues then you don't have to think about a cut away over your had. Always Blue Sky Holger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 June 28, 2011 QuoteWhy would you disconnect your RSL prior to cutting away? In two out situations it is sometimes needed but I'm trying to figure out a time that it would be needed when you have just a single canopy out. Did you say that backwards? Did you really mean: 2-out not needed Single canopy needed? If not, would you please explain your reasoning for saying it's needed in some 2-out situations and why it wouldn't be needed in a 1-out? Or, maybe I just read the entire post wrong.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #17 June 28, 2011 Quote How can she be "on top" of you on opening? That was my first thought...and indeed, THAT is scary.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #18 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhy would you disconnect your RSL prior to cutting away? In two out situations it is sometimes needed but I'm trying to figure out a time that it would be needed when you have just a single canopy out. Did you say that backwards? Did you really mean: 2-out not needed Single canopy needed? If not, would you please explain your reasoning for saying it's needed in some 2-out situations and why it wouldn't be needed in a 1-out? Or, maybe I just read the entire post wrong. I think Phree means in a Two Out Situation it is some times needed to Release the RSL, and in a single canopy it is not needed (Normally) to release the RSL. At least that is how I read it. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #19 June 28, 2011 QuoteFor a split second I thought of dissconecting my RSL and cutting away Don't ever cut away a good canopy because something bad 'might' happen. Did you clear the airspace below you? What if you avoid one wrap and casue another? What if you unload your canopy, and it floats up into the path of the oncoming jumper, even thuogh she otherwise might have flown above you? Now you caused a wrap when you would have just had 'no shit, there I was' story. What if your resere malfunctions? The bottom line is also my first line, don't cut away a good canopy because something bad 'might' happen. Many, many wraps end in both canopies bouncing off of each other, and flying away just fine. Even a close call is just a close call, and if she flew by you 3 inches from your canopy, that's still 3 inches and no need to cutaway. The idea is to 'see and avoid' traffic, and only take drastic action when it's absolutely needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #20 June 28, 2011 Whew! I was hoping that I misread it. Phree is trusted and I came up snake-eyes on that one. Thanks.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #21 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou have a lot of control inputs - 4 risers, and 2 toggles. I would focus on learning how to use those to the point that you've go them mastered. Your first though in how to get away from someone should not be fumbling with an RSL and cutting away. Fly your parachute wherever you want it to go - away from someone if necessary. Glad it worked out for everyone! _Am I'm all ears, I am almost 50, over 6'2 and 240, I fly a very conservative solo 250sf canopy. If I get a very good grip on my fronts I can yank them down a couple inches. Outside of heading in the opposite direction ( that's what I did ) what could I do? When you look up behind you and you see a canopy spiraling down at you that fast and then your view is blocked because it's went above your canopy and you think that you could collide in a second or two, it sucks. Hey Dudes, Quotemost mistakes are not made at the point the happening is ... they are made long before. How can she be "on top" of you on opening? Did you run under her? Don't you go 90° from the junprun till you have your following jumpers with good canopies in sight and then turn to DZ? Or did she first fly over your had and then had a malfunction? Did she took enough time between the exits? Did she do her freefall work in 90° to jumprun .... many possible mistakes. Work with your jumpmates on that issues then you don't have to think about a cut away over your had. Always Blue Sky Holger We left the skyvan first and the cutaway group second, we were all on our bellies. on opening, at 3000 ft, I saw all of my group in view and then headed straight back to land. the cutaway did open high, may be 4000 ft. I did not see her until she started the spin because she was straight above me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #22 June 28, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy would you disconnect your RSL prior to cutting away? In two out situations it is sometimes needed but I'm trying to figure out a time that it would be needed when you have just a single canopy out. Did you say that backwards? Did you really mean: 2-out not needed Single canopy needed? If not, would you please explain your reasoning for saying it's needed in some 2-out situations and why it wouldn't be needed in a 1-out? Or, maybe I just read the entire post wrong. I think Phree means in a Two Out Situation it is some times needed to Release the RSL, and in a single canopy it is not needed (Normally) to release the RSL. At least that is how I read it. From context, I got the impresion that the OP considered disconnecting his RSL prior to cutaway so to as to be able to freefall out of what he perceived as the "danger zone". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #23 June 28, 2011 You've got nth on this guy! probably 20ish ft away! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASW8c1AlVD8&feature=relatedFor info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #24 June 28, 2011 QuoteYou've got nth on this guy! probably 20ish ft away! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASW8c1AlVD8&feature=related At 0:17 do I see another group tracking right below the group in the video? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #25 June 29, 2011 QuoteOn Friday at the boogie in Davis, may be twenty seconds after opening and at about 2300 ft, I looked behind me to see a canopy spiraling down at me. For a split second I thought of dissconecting my RSL and cutting away. She cut away pretty much as I was going for my RSL, I'm a bad judge of distance but she seemed pretty damm close. Edited to add that I did not shoot this video, I was pretty close to right below her as she starts spiraling. Nothing she did wrong and I was glad to see she was fine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psFzvr-YMxU In the video she looks pretty damn close. If I'm understanding you correctly she was spiraling down over you and you lost sight of her because your canopy was blocking your view. That would scare the hell out of me. If I'm understanding correctly you were considering chopping your main to avoid what you perceived as soon to be an imminent collision. I assume you wanted to release your RSL so you could get some distance between her and you before deploying your reserve. Sounds like a reasonable consideration to me. If I saw a canopy spiraling toward me and thought I was about to be clocked, circumstances being the same as yours, I'd consider chopping as an option. There are a lot of what ifs being offered by others here and they are valid. Here are some what ifs I think are just as valid. What if you had not seen her or you balked and she did crash into you. What if your canopies wrapped up. What if you both were injured badly enough or unconscious so as not to be able to cutaway. Just some food for thought and I'm very glad everything turned out ok for both of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
