Line placement in the tailpocket

[Diver23 0]

Any suggestions on how to put the lines in the tailpocket in a good way? We’ve found what looks like some light burn- and fray marks on some of the lines. they appear mostly on steering and D-lines. Could this have something to do with the lines being the black Dacron type? Because these seem to be slightly thicker and less flexible than the ‘normal’ white ones. Our canopies also have the fifth brake line (more bulk) We’ve only found this after terminal/near terminal slider up jumps.

Cheers

[newatbase 0]

I use small pony tail rubber bands inside the tail pocket and they have worked well for me. although some BASE gear manufacturers may not reccomend this practice.

[TomAiello 26]

Virtually all BASE jumpers discontinued this practice several years ago. The feeling (generally supported by video and statistical evidence) was that the rubber bands increased the off heading rate of the canopy.

Basically, as the lines "popped" out of the rubber bands, they imparted rotational motion to the (still travelling toward line stretch, and hence most susceptible to off-heading) canopy bundle.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 26]

What kind of canopy are you using? And where is the extra line attached?

I've noticed the same type of line abrasion on Ace's and Blackjacks (which both have five lines) in the past. I haven't had a good look at any other five line canopies to check, though.

I'm curious if the extra line is causing the abrasion somehow.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mac266 0]

Quote

Virtually all BASE jumpers discontinued this practice several years ago. The feeling (generally supported by video and statistical evidence) was that the rubber bands increased the off heading rate of the canopy.

Basically, as the lines "popped" out of the rubber bands, they imparted rotational motion to the (still travelling toward line stretch, and hence most susceptible to off-heading) canopy bundle.

i spoke to a crw guy who uses the bands in the tail pocket and when i explained i freestow - he came up with all sorts of reasons not too - eg tension knots. i could not see his reasoning but him being a rigger / reserve packer / crw jumper etc - i wonder why his feelings are against freestowed lines in the tail pocket.

any thoughts?

[TomAiello 26]

I wonder if he's ever used free lines in the tailpocket?

I've yet to see a tension knot caused by freestowing. I did see one tension knot earlier this year (out of thousands of jump), but I don't think it was caused by free stowing--it looked more like a line "whiplash" issue.

Regardless, the thing getting most experienced jumpers isn't tension knots--it's object strike following off heading opening. Since that's our major danger, I'll continue to pack to minimize it.

I would be curious to see if any skydivers (especially CRW jumpers) have seen tension knots caused by free stowing. They have a vastly larger statistical sample (i.e. way more jumps) to examine.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[baseexplorer 0]

Once you velcro the tail pocket closed and move the canopy into the container the S folded lines will shift around inside the tail pocket creating a mess.
Using very small rubber bands will help ensure a orderly line deployment.

[Faber 0]

Quote

Once you velcro the tail pocket closed and move the canopy into the container the S folded lines will shift around inside the tail pocket creating a mess

huh?how does you lay it in your container?Holding under the canopi and on the tailpocket should prevent this..,if not,then im sure you do somthing wrong..

if im wrong,then the guy who sold me my new gear,packing it and send it half way around the globe,used a trick whith out rubber bands,which worked.I opened (ofcours)the rig when i got it,but i aslo inspected the pack job(and EVRY thing seemed as perfect,whith out rubber bands.. the guy is alot at this forum,but im sure he agree whith me that packing whith out rubberbands shouldnt make a mess to the lines,handling them from the pack job and into the container could mess them up,but only if you aint careful..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

Once you velcro the tail pocket closed and move the canopy into the container the S folded lines will shift around inside the tail pocket creating a mess.

I've re-opened and examined several rigs after transit. In fact, I kicked (quite literally) a rig around a room trying to duplicate my line over from last year, then re-opened it and examined the pack job. I've never seen the lines inside the tail pocket shifting in any significant way.

Some manufacturers use larger tail pockets, and I had heard that they might allow some line shifting (from a manufacturer who favored a smaller pocket), so I purposefully tested the larger tail pockets, and still couldn't get the lines to shift.

Can you detail how you closed it, and what size the tail pocket was? I'd love to try to replicate your results.

Thanks!

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Diver23 0]

We’ve noticed the abrasion on the lines of two Trolls and one Ace. A friend of us with a Fox (without the fifth steering line) who basically packs the same has no troubles.

Is it normal to see after an opening that the male and female part of the bottom velcro closing flaps of the tailpocket have moved relative to each other? Because this is basically telling that the bottom flaps of the tailpocket have opened more or less during the opening sequence. I’ve noticed this quite a few times on my canopy.

We already tried varying the size of the stows (start with large eights putting progressively smaller ones on top of that) and we also tried positioning the eights slightly offset to each other in the tailpocket. So far without much better results.

[TomAiello 26]

The BR tailpocket also has a noticeably wider opening than either the CR or Morpheus tailpocket. It's a design consideration that pivots around preventing line dump while allowing the lines free travel. I wonder if the fifth line just adds the right amount of additional bulk to create abrasion on the tailpocket mouth (and possibly blow it open).

Maybe we ought to see if anyone has jumped a fifth line with a wider-mouthed tailpocket.

Time to send out emails seeking expert opinions...

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

Quote

Maybe we ought to see if anyone has jumped a fifth line with a wider-mouthed tailpocket.

I havnt any problems at all whith mine FOX 265 vtec multi 5th linemod(5jumps on it only so not really a good point but at least i told whats it like here).Tom if you find out somthing to worry about then please mail me.But i doubt you´ll find any problems.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Diver23 0]

Also:

On the BR tailpocket de attachment point for de rubber band for the central stow is placed further away (up) from the opening of the tailpocket. So the bulk of the stow is concentrated more up making the opening of the tailpocket much cleaner. I don’t know where this attachment point is placed on the Ace but on the Troll it is right on the trailing edge.


Faber:
Note that we’ve seen this problem only on slider up jumps.

[Faber 0]

Quote

Note that we’ve seen this problem only on slider up jumps.

them im much more happy,i´ll just stay low then

Could you please mail me whith the info you got?In case i some how should find myself in a place were it would be nice to use a slider

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[EddyS 0]

I had the 5th line mod done to my vtec 285 recently, and have done only a hand full of slider down and slider up jumps.

Nothing to report so far - Norway in early June so more slider up - will keep you posted.....

BASE 802