PC Stow

[mac266 0]

As i have yet to go stowed i have been looking to go stowed off an A i regularly jump.

I have seen some pics of PC deployment that show "bridle dump" on extraction - and was slightly concerned about this as I will be going stowed and pitching after a 1 second delay.

i spent some time talking to a very experienced CRW / rigger / reserve packer / anal equipment freak skydiver - and after some horrible video of his bridle "horseshoeing" he started stowing the bridle at the bottom of the BOC with the PC stowed normally on top (so basically not stowing the bridle in the PC). He has never had problems with the set up and the logic that the PC is extracted and put into the air flow and pulls the birdle from the BOC makes some sense to me. BUT obviously I have other questions - how would this be effected at the low airspeed of a BASE jump?, why is not a widely used method? are there any obvious problems that I am too stupid to notice? is the use of this in the BASE environment adding other problems? as i am thinking some negative reasons for this method..............

Also I normally jump this A with a 46 2 second delay - I have had some minimal discussion on the pros and cons on stowing a 46 - should I perhaps go with a 42 stowed 1 second delay? the object is 315ft and i realise that going stowed will get me open lower that handheld but the landing area and outs are very good!


just thought i would perhaps throw this into the arena as I am fed up with discussing this in my head!

CYA

Michael

[DexterBase 1]

When you say "bridle dump" you're referring to the way the bridle comes out of the folded PC when you toss it?

Before I give my thoughts on this, why does this concern you? Is there a potential problem with this that you're thinking of?

At the airspeed of a 1 second delay, you will want the entire bridle deployed when the PC inflates. The whole reason for a nine foot bridle in BASE is to provide "snatch force" to open the container and extract the canopy.

If you stow the bridle inside the BOC and toss only the PC, you have a good chance of placing the PC in your burble and having a PC in tow or worse.

Aside from this risk, instead of having immediate snatch force at bridle stretch, you will need to pickup enough speed for the PC to start extracting the bridle from the BOC. If you're already doing a 1 second delay, I assume you don't have the time or altitude to wait for this to happen.

Another thing to look at is the way the bridle will rub against the BOC spandex while it's being pulled out. It will cause unnecessary wear to the pouch.

These are a couple reasons I can think why you wouldn't want to do what your friend has been doing, at least not for BASE. I cant see any reason why this "bridle dump" is cause for concern. Probably a good thing actually.

[Faber 0]

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As i have yet to go stowed i have been looking to go stowed off an A i regularly jump

You dont HAVE to go stowed from thouse low Sicko objects you have overthere..
A second thourgth would also be that you migth want to get rid of your bad habit of offheadding while when you go stowed theres a bigger chance to get unstapel in deployment,making offheadding a bigger issue..

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stowing the bridle at the bottom of the BOC with the PC stowed normally on top (so basically not stowing the bridle in the PC).

I personaly dont like the idea of a "free"bridel in the button of my BOC.i would like to control it which i do when i have it inside the PC.

Last thing,dont you dare to hurt your self on that stuff i have arenged my arrival,and if you cant jump ill ill use your gear as back to back to backwhith out you having my sister

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I am fed up with discussing this in my head!

so that issue that your single aint running around up there anymore(that one were from L###

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[mac266 0]

bridle dump concerned me in a low airspeed situation having all that bridle flapping around near you and some sort of choas theory causing an issue.......... maybe i am tooooooo paranoid!!!

some confirmation for my thoughts! i am just questioning every avenue! it is very hard to argue with this guy! he is very confident in his statements!

thanks for your reply! appreciate it!

Cya

Michael

[mac266 0]

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and if you cant jump ill ill use your gear as back to back to backwhith out you having my sister

NEVER!!! you will only go back to back with my gear if i get to go front to front with your sister!!!

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so that issue that your single aint running around up there anymore(that one were from L###

well yeah! still single! and apparently "I am not tall enough" !!!! - probably have the wrong colour eyes too!!!!

[hookitt 1]

>>i spent some time talking to a very experienced
>>CRW / rigger / reserve packer / anal equipment freak skydiver

Read: NON-BASE jumper. (note: this in no way takes away his credibility as a skydiver and rigger, but this is not skydiving)


>>- and after some horrible video of his bridle "horseshoeing"

How horrible is this really? Let go of the Pilot chute.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[mac266 0]

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>>i spent some time talking to a very experienced
>>CRW / rigger / reserve packer / anal equipment freak skydiver

Read: NON-BASE jumper. (note: this in no way takes away his credibility as a skydiver and rigger, but this is not skydiving)


>>- and after some horrible video of his bridle "horseshoeing"

How horrible is this really? Let go of the Pilot chute.

Yeah i know....... but I was just taking ideas from all areas and throwing them out for discussion! i am still a newbie and I am questioning everything - just because a BASE jumper says something does not mean that he knows best - so when a "NON-BASE jumper is doing something that I perhaps see some advantage in - I aint going to disregard it cause he is not a BASE'r!

I know it aint the same sport - but hell surely better to question than not?!?!?


so you have any comment on the 42 /46 stowed from 315ft? that perhaps is constructive?

[Faber 0]

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>>- and after some horrible video of his bridle "horseshoeing"

How horrible is this really? Let go of the Pilot chute.

well i wouldnt apriciate a horseshoe on a BASE,you migth dont have the time to go for your pc the 2. time,or atleast it migth will cause you suvir injury..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[hookitt 1]

Sorry man, I'm not dissing your friend. He has LOTS of stuff applicable to BASE but not that one (in my opion). It's a good discussion. He's a CRW dog so he has some cool tricks.

A well prepped Pilot chute will extract the bridle along with it. do a nice Mushroom pack job on the Pilot chute and Make a bunch of throws and watch what happens. If Enough of the bridle is packed near the cap, when you Grab the cap to throw it, you will also be squeezing the end of the s-folded bridle.

As soon as you toss it, the bridle with come out like the freestowed lines of your canopy. <== Make sense?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[mac266 0]

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Sorry man, I'm not dissing your friend. He has LOTS of stuff applicable to BASE but not that one (in my opion). It's a good discussion. He's a CRW dog so he has some cool tricks.

A well prepped Pilot chute will extract the bridle along with it. do a nice Mushroom pack job on the Pilot chute and Make a bunch of throws and watch what happens. If Enough of the bridle is packed near the cap, when you Grab the cap to throw it, you will also be squeezing the end of the s-folded bridle.

As soon as you toss it, the bridle with come out like the freestowed lines of your canopy.

Yeah I have practiced on the ground - and with it well stowed the bridle extracts very nicely! but with it not it just dumps out! perhaps just more practice on stowing it!

Ah the UK and low objects!!!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Be safe!

Michael

[hookitt 1]

Horshoe in this instance is read:

Holding on to the pilot chute handle, the bridle blown up from the base of the Pilot chute and held in by the pin. If you let go of the pilot chute, there is no horse shoe.

On a skydiving rig that is very normal that he bridle will fully extend itself before you let go of the pilot chute. It's only noticeble if you hold onto the pilot chute for any amount of time or on video where you can freeze frame it or slow motion.

this is not a horshoe like the bridle wrapped around your arm or foot...

Mac do I have that descrition right?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[mac266 0]

yeah....... as soon as he grabbed the PC out of the spandex the bridle dumped out and went everywhere! I guess everything looks worse in slow mo!!! - well apart from faber having sex! it seems to last longer!!!

[hookitt 1]

>>- well apart from faber having sex! it seems to last longer!!!

funny.... have a good day.. I must go work now.

C-ya

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Faber 0]

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well apart from faber having sex! it seems to last longer!!!

well at least i get some
okay Hookit i think i migth misunderstanded it then,but as said im abit hysterical about bridels and pc´s,iafter i tryed an hesi as an werry wellknown guy from Swened(i think)had last yearWell i had mine on skydive but it didnt make it more fun to me anyway

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[NeilQ 0]

Hey Mac

I have watched someone go stowed a few times off a 260ft bridge with a 46" (or similar). The video is very interesting as the p/c "squids" at least twice before inflating and extracting the canopy. I have also spoken to some experienced guys who go stowed on low stuff regularly and they feel that a 42" will get you open as quick if not quicker than a 46 stowed. I think the gear config charts would indicate going stowed with anything larger than a 42 is a bad idea. Please bear in mind I am no expert etc

Stay safe

Neil

[mac266 0]

Thanks for the response to my other part of the question! I have had discussion that a 42 would be better and wanted some other opinions! Thanks1

was that the S on "the border"?

also the charts say hand held with a 46 from altitudes where "sensible delays are hand held" due to altitude are required - but if going stowed from these altitudes that maybe "generally are handheld jumps" is a 42 giving the required drag to open at a "personally excepted height"?

Cheers N!

[NeilQ 0]

Mac

Yes, the S was on the border

I think with regards to going stowed from lower altitudes, the guys I spoke to were saying that there seemed to be no advantage using a 46 stowed over a 42 stowed as the 46 appeared to take longer to inflate and gets you open at same if not lower altitude. Watching this I'd have to say I'd agree. Personally acceptable height, hmmm tough one as only you know what yours is! For me there would need to be a very good reason for going stowed from that height, ie very awkward accesss to exit point meaning p/c management would be a problem, but that's just me. Again bear in mind I am no expert blah blah blah etc and so on

Neil

[TomAiello 26]

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...stowing the bridle at the bottom of the BOC with the PC stowed normally on top (so basically not stowing the bridle in the PC)...

I know one very experienced (500+ jumps) BASE jumper who uses this method for the same reasons. I don't really have an opinion on it, but it seems to be working quite well for him.

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I have had some minimal discussion on the pros and cons on stowing a 46 - should I perhaps go with a 42 stowed 1 second delay?

Does the PC have a cap on the crown? In my opinion, the cap (or lack thereof) is a more important consideration than the extra 4". The 46 may inflate slightly slower, but will also extract the canopy slightly faster--and generally will do these things consistently. A cap, on the other hand, can introduce a weird variable hesitation (sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't). Variability is generally the real killer at low altitudes. From 315' you should be fine either way, but I'd definitely look at reducing the variables (and consider variable reduction to be more important than getting a slightly faster opening most of the time).

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[EddyS 0]

Mac,

I believe I have watched the same jumps and footage that Neil refers to, and agree whole heartedly that it "appeared" to take longer with a 46.

I get the impression though, that your intial conversations about this are with the same people that Neil and I discussed it with, and therefore you maybe still only be one (or one committee) opinion forward with this. Might be worth confirming that you are getting "different" views/opinions?.....

Out of interest, are you doing this to "get it done", or because it's needed? Is there no-where else you can "get it done" that would afford you the opportunity to try the 46 v's the 42 theory, not need to do a 1 sec etc? Neil and I are of a similar opinion when it comes to going stowed - we'd do it lower than our personal hard deck only if "needed", never "just because"....

Stay safe

BASE 802

[Faber 0]

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Out of interest, are you doing this to "get it done", or because it's needed? Is there no-where else you can "get it done" that would afford you the opportunity to try the 46 v's the 42 theory, not need to do a 1 sec etc? Neil and I are of a similar opinion when it comes to going stowed - we'd do it lower than our personal hard deck only if "needed", never "just because"....

Im talking only for my self rigth now,and dont know why he wants to do it that way..
When i started to think of doing a stowed 400ft or sub 400ft, iwere of the oppinion that a 46´would be larger and there for easyer to grap than a 42´´ and while you probaly go chicken(no matter the object)the first time,then it sounds more common to use a larger pc,while low delay =big pc.But thats migth only if you go hand held or what?

Any tecknical explanation to why a 46´Stowed will be slower to inflate than an 42´?

I mean to rember that an wild aussie used a 50´to his duoble gainer from200ft stowed ofcours.If a larger pc should inflate slower why would he then use such on that jump?Or do i rember wrong...

Do the wild aussie have anything to say on this?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 26]

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Any tecknical explanation to why a 46´Stowed will be slower to inflate than an 42´?

A larger PC will inflate marginally slower than a smaller PC, simply because there is more fabric that has to be inflated. It's the same reason that (ceterus paribus) smaller canopies inflate faster.

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If a larger pc should inflate slower why would he then use such on that jump?

The larger PC will exert more force on the canopy, extracting it (and getting it to line stretch) faster. This ought to lead to a (again, marginally) faster canopy inflation sequence.

Remember that the Little Aussie used a 50" PC with nothing on the topskin (no cap, not even tapes, I believe) to make those jumps. I believe that the absence of weight on the topskin is most important in eliminating hesitation and encouraging faster inflation.

If you're wondering about your particular PC's, you're probably best off to just take them out to a good daylight span and do go and throws with each of them, videoing and comparing inflation times.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mac266 0]

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Out of interest, are you doing this to "get it done", or because it's needed?

No not at all - but I guess you ask that as you dont know what sort of jumper I am.....................

Be safe too.................

[EddyS 0]

Yes mate - only because I don't know.

That said you've seen me perform? And despite not being able to see your hand in fornt of your face at the exit, I think I made an impression with my off heading?

BASE 802

[NeilQ 0]

Not to mention make Dan and me laugh like drains!!

[mac266 0]

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And despite not being able to see your hand in fornt of your face at the exit, I think I made an impression with my off heading?

hehehe! oh yeah I remember that "record" jump!

Nice work! strong winds! hehehe