granpasc 0 #1 August 4, 2014 Vampire versus Havoc, 1'15 but more visual, during break at 1'35: https://vimeo.com/102478064 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DHemer 0 #2 August 5, 2014 awesome video, great way to start the day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ksandr 0 #3 August 5, 2014 Amazing video, thanks. Threads name should be Fast Pilot, Slow Pilot, because it generally depends on pilot. You can see - Vampire Pilot change angle of attack and go faster horizontally and vertically, so Havoc Pilot can do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
granpasc 0 #4 August 11, 2014 KsandrThreads name should be Fast Pilot, Slow Pilot, because it generally depends on pilot. You can see - Vampire Pilot change angle of attack and go faster horizontally and vertically, so Havoc Pilot can do the same. Havoc/Ghost; Glide=2,7 Speed=100mph Vampire; Glide= 3,2 speed= 130 mph http://paralog.net/ppc/showalltracks.php?equipment=Ghost+3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ksandr 0 #5 August 11, 2014 Ghost 3: http://paralog.net/ppc/showtrack.php?trackid=15866 Glide 3,4 Speed = 150 mph Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #6 August 11, 2014 Unless you know the weather conditions during the jumps, no information from the PPC website can be compared to one or another. Only freefall speed is free from wind influence. But glide and speed you cant compare unless the jumps are made the same load/time/location and direction and even then skill/pilot difference makes objective results hard to get...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifell 0 #7 August 11, 2014 KsandrGhost 3: http://paralog.net/ppc/showtrack.php?trackid=15866 Glide 3,4 Speed = 150 mph Yup that was me, that GR is much higher than anyone else in Ghost3 ever did mainly because we were jumping in a hurricane... However new world records were set that day ;) ::Also 150mph at 3,4GR in a Ghost3 is a good indication of what the winds were doing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #8 August 11, 2014 I am hoping that one day PPC at least shows the winds aloft so that apples can be compared to apples. I would imagine on comp day they could be entered prior to each round. I heard of an even more exact solution using the FlySight similar to how the Avionics GPS calculates winds on the climb. I don't know if PPC will ever use the data to "handicap" the race but at least we could factor it into the comparisons.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #9 August 11, 2014 Quote I am hoping that one day PPC at least shows the winds aloft so that apples can be compared to apples. Winds aloft are also never accurate, especially not when taken from reports or forecast. Why dont people just do a very simple thing. Stop (incorrectly) comparing? Glide-ratios of 4.5 and ground speeds of 350 kmh are cool, but should be looked at on a 'per competition basis' and are not representable of actual wingsuit performance (in no wind conditions, bare glide/speed). The biggest problem is in lack of peoples knowledge on how these scores come to be. When competing in similar conditions on a dropzone, for sure its a great format. But comparing between competitions (not using the percentage scoring, but actual glide/speed results themselves) we terribly skew peoples perception of whats possible and the person currently ranking number 25 or 30 on the glide results, may actually have had the worlds best glide-ratio without wind. But that we'll never knowJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #10 August 11, 2014 mccordiaQuoteI am hoping that one day PPC at least shows the winds aloft so that apples can be compared to apples. Winds aloft are also never accurate, especially not when taken from reports or forecast. You really believe that? I have had a pretty good success rate in both aviation and wingsuit navigation by using Winds Aloft. You might not see the value of including it in the results but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable. If the winds were even reported as part of the event then it allows a cross competition review of the numbers. I can take a guess that some results are due to uppers, but maybe they really weren't. I don't suggest they are included in the score at this time, that is too complex of a discussion.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #11 August 11, 2014 With winds aloft changing sometimes per minute, and various winds at various altitudes. No, in terms of 100% accurate results, they are not accurate enough. For sure enough for aviation/nagivation terms. But objective, zero wind results. No. Unless you do the competitition from hot air balloons, and calulate the wind-drift on the way up. Or use tandemjumpers (per load) to get a rough winddrift calculation for the entire way down from an object (roughly) falling straight down. Then yes....but otherwise..its always "I believe it is 100% accurate" vs "It actually is 100% accurate". For sure, winds aloft give 'an indication' but they still dont allow 100% objective results and comparisons. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #12 August 11, 2014 If the goal were to use the winds to create an accurate score then I would agree. I can't see that it would happen that way anyway, there is too much history in PPC that would have to be thrown away and there is an argument based on canopy flying where high altitude and favorable winds are used. All I am asking is for them to be recorded so I can see if a run was at a 10mph or 35mph tailwind. For that Winds Aloft are just fine. You know I think we are saying the same thing. You are saying don't compare results because they are not the same, I am saying if I knew the winds I could at least take it into account and make the comparison slightly useful. I believe we are in "violent agreement". Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ksandr 0 #13 August 13, 2014 QuoteWhen competing in similar conditions on a dropzone, for sure its a great format. Agree. And I'm working on it to provide this functionality on my web-applicationweb-application About perfomance - "wing load" is also major factor, so in same suits man who weights 150% from my weight will fly faster, but I'll get longer track. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #14 August 13, 2014 KsandrQuoteWhen competing in similar conditions on a dropzone, for sure its a great format. Agree. And I'm working on it to provide this functionality on my web-applicationweb-application About perfomance - "wing load" is also major factor, so in same suits man who weights 150% from my weight will fly faster, but I'll get longer track. It will be interesting to record weights so that we can see how much of a difference it really makes. I don't think it is as much of a factor as I once thought but there is only one way to find out, real data instead of just opinions.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #15 August 13, 2014 WickedWingsuitsIt will be interesting to record weights so that we can see how much of a difference it really makes. I don't think it is as much of a factor as I once thought but there is only one way to find out, real data instead of just opinions. There is no need to "find out," it's already known in the field of aerodynamics for a very very long time. Weight does not affect absolute glide ratio. It does affect speed. Therefore it does affect relative glide ratio (which is influenced by speed). Of course with humans weight delta is usually accompanied by size delta, so that admittedly makes the situation less straightforward.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #16 August 14, 2014 The111***It will be interesting to record weights so that we can see how much of a difference it really makes. I don't think it is as much of a factor as I once thought but there is only one way to find out, real data instead of just opinions. There is no need to "find out," it's already known in the field of aerodynamics for a very very long time. Weight does not affect absolute glide ratio. It does affect speed. Therefore it does affect relative glide ratio (which is influenced by speed). Of course with humans weight delta is usually accompanied by size delta, so that admittedly makes the situation less straightforward. A lot of smart people would actually tell you that aerodynamics are not fully understood. I am just a dumb one saying it. I suspect that is why NASA continues to research it. Data man, we need more data!Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #17 August 14, 2014 Weights doesn't affect glide, but slower fallrate does mean more 'free' travel due to wind (or less when flying into wind. And a heavy person doesnt just have more weight, but often also a less aerodynamic build, resembling a truck vs a smooth Lamborghini in terms of the way the profile looks that penetrates the wind. It might not directly influence glide by the weight itself, but for sure indirectly its of large influence.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #18 August 14, 2014 WickedWingsuits aerodynamics are not fully understood As with any science, that is true. That there are unknowns remaining is unrelated to the fact that what is known, is known. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
granpasc 0 #19 August 15, 2014 mccordia Weights doesn't affect glide... Sorry for metric units: Wing loading glider: 40 kg/m2 (For aera 16m2, AR >20) Wing loading rc glider : 2-10 kg/m2 (For aera 20) Wing loading WS: 40 kg/m2 (For aera Means we are load like glider, with aera like RC glider ! --> Little less or more pounds is not pregnant on our glide. The weight will be significant when we lose half of pounds and we'll increase size (>2x) of suits. Better both size of suit for increase AR... or create a slide wingsuit for drift flying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ksandr 0 #20 September 22, 2014 Flew in Ghost 3 at this weekend. Max speed 215 km/h (133 mph) http://bws.aero/ru/track/179?f=3000&t=2000 Feels like I can faster, so I'll try to fly faster on upcoming event. And it's not me, but 248 km/h : http://ppc.paralog.net/showtrack.php?trackid=1180 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
