arlo 0 #26 December 8, 2003 sure the cypres has more jumps on it over the past 12 years. that makes perfect sense. it did not have all those jumps when it was released. i'm not arguing your reason (picking what you let your wife jump). i have a cypres and will continue to do so because there's no reason for me to pay for a new aad now. but comparing 7000 jumps + on a new AAD as beta testing and saying it doesn't touch 12 yrs of cypres jumps (implying beta testing) just does not make sense. regarding majik and maubeuge: the teams ARE sponsored, indeed. i'm not saying "hey THEY jump vigils and you should too." I'm saying that they've put most of those jumps on the vigil in the last year or so AS some of the beta testing so there IS some real world application there. i'm also saying that even WITH the sponsorship, they are not gonna put themselves in harm's way to jump something they think is unsafe...sponsorship or not. no amount of sponsorship will have me jumping something i don't believe will work. i believe they feel the same. i never said they bought anything. i said that they were jumping the vigil. please don't misunderstand MY intent. I don't care which AAD you or your wife use. I don't expect anyone to care what AAD I use. but if you're gonna compare beta testing to beta testing, do so with the correct data, that's all. blues, arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #27 December 9, 2003 If they have released it thats not beta testing anymore. If you are conservative you can stay with cypres. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #28 December 9, 2003 QuoteYup seen 'em around here in Holland. They come in a nice metal case. Seen one turned on and off; the programmer must have been feeling silly; the unit says hello and goodbye etc The menu structure is something to get used to. They look slick, like a Cypres but somehow really high-tech, but haven't seen 'em in a rig yet. Probably will this weekend tho. They speak??? Why??? I want my AAD to have only the absolutely neccesary function. More function=more running code that can lock the unit up. I don't want my AAD to stop working in freefall because the speach software, or the fancy menu system driver crashes. My AAD shall do what it's designed to do. Nothing more, nothing less. There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #29 December 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteYup seen 'em around here in Holland. They come in a nice metal case. Seen one turned on and off; the programmer must have been feeling silly; the unit says hello and goodbye etc The menu structure is something to get used to. They look slick, like a Cypres but somehow really high-tech, but haven't seen 'em in a rig yet. Probably will this weekend tho. They speak??? Why??? I want my AAD to have only the absolutely neccesary function. More function=more running code that can lock the unit up. I don't want my AAD to stop working in freefall because the speach software, or the fancy menu system driver crashes. My AAD shall do what it's designed to do. Nothing more, nothing less. Nah they don't make sounds, they just display ' hello' etc Talking about freezing tho, my Neptune did Did 5 jumps with it, as a 2nd audible. First 3 went okay, after the 5th I was filling in my logbook so I checked the Neptune, it said '90 ft 16ft/s' and didn't respond to the buttons at all. Had te remove the battery 3 times for it to reboot and function again. Man you'd think it's software was written by Microsoft?! Oh well, guess that's a bit my own fault for wanting new gadgets.... But I'm glad my cypres has never frozen thus far!! ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #30 December 9, 2003 QuoteTalking about freezing tho, my Neptune did We've had one of them freeze and two of them have their cases come apart. Not a great start for this product, huh? At least the mfg. has been gracious about taking them back! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #31 December 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteTalking about freezing tho, my Neptune did We've had one of them freeze and two of them have their cases come apart. Not a great start for this product, huh? At least the mfg. has been gracious about taking them back! Well their (prompt, I must say) reply was to update the software and change the battery. I don't have an infrared port on my laptop, so I'll have to wait untill this weekend to borrow someone else's lappy to get from 1.18 to 1.21 software. But that the battery could be low so soon sounds fishy to me; I've only been using it for 3 jumps before it froze! ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #32 December 9, 2003 QuoteBut that the battery could be low so soon sounds fishy to me; I've only been using it for 3 jumps before it froze! Yeah, but that battery could have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a long time, in the wrong conditions, and have worn itself down before you ever got your hands on it... I was much more concerned with the fact that we had two cases that started to separate...both without undue stress, and both within 20 jumps. But, like I said, they were certainly nice about taking them back! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #33 December 9, 2003 Quote But I'm glad my cypres has never frozen thus far!! How do you know it hasn't? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #34 December 9, 2003 Quote Quote But I'm glad my cypres has never frozen thus far!! How do you know it hasn't? Jim Because so far it has always turned itself off at the end of the day... And I can turn it back on again the next day. The only way this neptune could turn off by itself was probably if the battery was completely empty! ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #35 December 9, 2003 About Vigil (not the Neptune)... There was recently "real proof" (meaning not a test in any way) but it's not from a life-saving activation for going low or (God forbid) being unconscious. A normal paying customer, not in the US, erroneously set his altitude correction at +900 feet. He thought he was setting his activation alt AT 900 feet AGL, but what he did was add 900 feet to the factory-set activation alt for "PRO" (which is set 800 ft.) He had a unexpected surprise when his Vigil fired shortly after he pulled. So, the Vigil did what it was programmed to do. (He landed fine, BTW.) FYI - the altitude correction function is for when your landing area is at a different altitude than your departure (like if you took off at sea level and were doing a demo up in the mountains). You can correct for the difference in altitude.-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #36 December 9, 2003 That's good to hear. Do you know if the folks at Vigil will present a "Vigil Saves" document, or page, similar to the Cypres document? I suspect that such a document might help to prove to people that the device really does do what it claims it will. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #37 December 9, 2003 Hey Kim, I just got my Vigil yesterday. You are the best, thanks for the help getting it. One Comment, regarding the altitude correction. I read the manual, and it needs some work in this section. If my landing area is 500 feet higher than my takeoff area, I am assuming I set my offset to +500 feet, right? The description needs one or two real world examples, in my opinion, with some good diagrams. SSK has some good examples, maybe write /diagram something along the same lines. Also, I had three questions for you (and I figured I would post them for benefit of all) 1) I am assuming there is the same 'warning' that SSK has issued with the Cypress, for the jump plane not to go below the takeoff altitude (e.g. an airport on the top of a hill, then fly in the valley, then go back up to altitude for a jump.. ) I believe there was an incident that related to this where a Cypress didnt fire at the right altitude (lower than needed). What is Vigil's take on this scenario? 2) I was playing with the unit yesterday - very slick and rugged. I was playing with the offsets, and I turned the unit off. When I turned it back on, it looked like it retained the offset (??). I couldn't find info on this in the manual. From what I could see, it retains ALL settings when the unit goes off (PRO,STUDENT, TANDEM), including the offset. If that is the design, I think it needs better documentation. -- especially since it is different than a cypress in terms of retaining offsets. Cypress requires re-offsetting for each jump.. does Vigil re-calibrate at the landing area and require a re-set? 3) On the list of included equipment, it said there was another filter.. I didn't see one -- is it buried under the foam somewhere? 4) Oh yeah.. another question.. in Student mode, does the Vigil need to be turned off if the student rides the plane down? (a la cypress) FYI, the manual link on the website is dead.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #38 December 9, 2003 QuoteWell their (prompt, I must say) reply was to update the software and change the battery. I don't have an infrared port on my laptop, so I'll have to wait untill this weekend to borrow someone else's lappy to get from 1.18 to 1.21 software. But that the battery could be low so soon sounds fishy to me; I've only been using it for 3 jumps before it froze! I had mine freeze as well, only I was using it as a visual altimeter. It apparently froze at about 400 feet, so I didn't even notice until I was walking back from the landing area. I keep foretting to update the firmware That's gonna bite me in the ass one of these days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #39 December 10, 2003 QuoteIf they have released it thats not beta testing anymore. If you are conservative you can stay with cypres. You clearly don't develop software. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #40 December 10, 2003 QuoteYou clearly don't develop software. At least not for Microsoft. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave1216 0 #41 December 10, 2003 So it must be fully tested. Has it been tested on students, or just dummy's and experts? Any news on where do get this in the UK? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #42 December 10, 2003 Hi Jonathan. To answer your questions... 1) I am assuming there is the same 'warning' that SSK has issued with the Cypress, for the jump plane not to go below the takeoff altitude (e.g. an airport on the top of a hill, then fly in the valley, then go back up to altitude for a jump.. ) I believe there was an incident that related to this where a Cypress didnt fire at the right altitude (lower than needed). What is Vigil's take on this scenario? ** I have sent an email to one of the designers in Belgium to make sure I give you the proper info. I do think I know but I my experience with the word ASS-U-ME makes me cautious I'll be back ASAP with that answer. 2) I was playing with the unit yesterday - very slick and rugged. I was playing with the offsets, and I turned the unit off. When I turned it back on, it looked like it retained the offset (??). I couldn't find info on this in the manual. From what I could see, it retains ALL settings when the unit goes off (PRO,STUDENT, TANDEM), including the offset. If that is the design, I think it needs better documentation. -- especially since it is different than a cypress in terms of retaining offsets. Cypress requires re-offsetting for each jump.. does Vigil re-calibrate at the landing area and require a re-set? **Yes, the Vigil will retain the settings you program no matter how many times you turn it off/on and no matter how long the unit remains dormant. 3) On the list of included equipment, it said there was another filter.. I didn't see one -- is it buried under the foam somewhere? **The manual states in section 4.1 (Components), "The box is equipped with two positive locking connectors, two integrated bronze filters, and a stainless steel closing screw." Is this what you mean? If so, then there are indeed two filers - they are installed on each side of the box. If not, I was not aware of an extra filter being included. I actually don't think that is the case. I have asked the guys in Belgium to be sure. 4) Oh yeah.. another question.. in Student mode, does the Vigil need to be turned off if the student rides the plane down? (a la cypress) **If the plane will decend faster than 45 MPH below the firing alt of 1000 ft, that would be best.-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #43 December 10, 2003 Testing has been going on for at least four years before now. Such tests include: - Pressure chamber testing (Advanced Aerospace Designs in Belgium has a chamber big enough to test 200 units at once.) - Computer simulations - Drop tests with dummies - Live tests with experienced skydivers exiting the plane with units inside their jumpsuit - Live test with experienced jumpers who have had and currently have units installed in their standard rigs. But, of course we could not ask them to not pull just for testing purposes! But, testing is over now. The Vigils that are being produced and getting out to the public are production models that are ready to do what they are inteded to do (save your ass if you don't or can't). I handle the US/Canada/S Am so I don't know the answer to who is selling Vigils in England. Sorry! You can contact Vigil in Belgium directly at info@vigil.aero-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #44 December 10, 2003 Quote** I have sent an email to one of the designers in Belgium to make sure I give you the proper info. I do think I know but I my experience with the word ASS-U-ME makes me cautious I'll be back ASAP with that answer. Well, my assumption is the more 'conservative' choice, which is 'don't have your jump plane do that'. This scenario is relatively rare, but, while comparing manuals with Cypress, it occured to me that this situation was probably omitted from the manual vs. not an issue with the vigil. Quote Is this what you mean? If so, then there are indeed two filers - they are installed on each side of the box. If not, I was not aware of an extra filter being included. I actually don't think that is the case. I have asked the guys in Belgium to be sure. Um.. cant recall.. that is why I was looking for your manual online (but the link is dead). I will look the passage again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #45 December 11, 2003 Quotethat is why I was looking for your manual online (but the link is dead) The manual IS on the website, but the internal link is dead. In the printed hardcopy of the manual you find http://www.vigil.aero/manual/ and that works. (even in French!) What doesn't work is the link from the introduction page http://www.vigil.aero/Download.html and from there to http://www.vigil.aero/User_ManualUKV2_0.pdf Sometimes I'm sooo incredibly smart.... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #46 December 11, 2003 Ah, right you are. The passage I mis-read was the one she quoted.. so I guess it doesnt come with an extra replacement filter (a la Cypress 2). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #47 December 11, 2003 Okay, back with the answers I could not provide yesterday. The answers are from the Vigil designer in Belgium, actually. 1) I am assuming there is the same 'warning' that SSK has issued with the Cypress, for the jump plane not to go below the takeoff altitude (e.g. an airport on the top of a hill, then fly in the valley, then go back up to altitude for a jump.. ) I believe there was an incident that related to this where a Cypress didnt fire at the right altitude (lower than needed). What is Vigil's take on this scenario? **The Vigil is not affected by this and does not recalibrate inside a plane. 3) On the list of included equipment, it said there was another filter.. I didn't see one -- is it buried under the foam somewhere? (Kim) You answered this yourself and you were right. No extra filters. If you ever get your Vigil wet enough to need to replace the filter, contact me and I'll get you replacements ASAP. 4) Oh yeah.. another question.. in Student mode, does the Vigil need to be turned off if the student rides the plane down? (a la cypress) **Not as long as the plane doesn't exceed a vertical speed of 20 meters/sec (60 ft/sec). Airtec advices 13 meters/sec (40 ft/sec). But, err on the side of caution and switch it off. Or, ask your pilot to fly less than 50 ft/sec.-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #48 December 11, 2003 Whoooaaa... I just tried to change my avitar pic and all it did was make my current avitar look like it gained 100 pounds!!! I know it's the holidays and all but that's just wrong! Or maybe it's just me who's seeing my avitar pic all streched out? Is that some sort of computer-induced anorexia? Strange, very strange. Maybe Sangiro's out there having a laugh at my torment.-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #49 December 11, 2003 Your previous avatar is just cached by your browser, but the width and height ain't. Hold down the shift key and hit the refresh button. There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllyMilne 0 #50 December 12, 2003 QuoteSorry even 8 X 7000 jumps isn't as much real world proof as cypress has garnered in the last almost 12 years. You mean to tell me that 56,000 jumps without a problem isnot enough testing? Good god you must have a shit load of jumps if 56,000 jump with out problem is worring to you. Isnt the chance of having a mal 1 in a 1000? Well this is 56 times (at least better) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
